Family Bondage (Bonds 1.1)
In our first episode, Jenny (she/her) and Malia (she/her) introduce themselves and the podcast before diving into Pact's introductory chapter: Bonds 1.1!
This week's discussion question: How would you compare your first impression of Blake’s family with your first impression of the Pale protagonists' families?
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This episode was released when Pale was up to (approximately) 9.12.
Transcript
Jenny 0:14
Hey everybody, welcome to Pale in Comparison. In this podcast my sister uses her knowledge of the Otherverse to take a look at Pact, Wildbow's least appreciated work and I try not to give away any spoilers. I'm Jenny, and Malia convinced me to read Worm.
Malia 0:26
I'm Malia, and Jenny convinced me to read everything else. This episode, we are covering Bonds chapter 1.1. Before we get into that, however, I'd like to issue a spoiler warning! Both Jenny and I have read Pale. And, as you'll learn, the point of this podcast is for me to use my knowledge of Pale to guess what the heck is going on in Pact. Thus, this podcast will be filled with Pale spoilers. If you don't know who killed the Carmine Beat and don't want us to tell you, stop now, read Pale, and come back to this podcast. As for Pact, there will be full spoilers through the chapter that we are covering.
Jenny 1:03
Alright so, first, we're just gonna do a quick introduction of ourselves. So pretty much why we're doing this podcast. So again, I'm Jenny. And that's my sister Malia. We basically love Wildbow stories. Like I said, she told me about Worm. And I don't want to say obsessed... But I really really liked the story. I've read pretty much everything. The only one I haven't gotten all the way through is Twig, because there was a certain part that kind of broke my soul a little bit inside. So I need to recover from it before I attempt to read Twig again. But I probably will try. I just need some time.
Malia 1:39
It's been like a year and a half. I mean, I don't even know. But-
Jenny 1:42
You know what? It takes some time. Okay, you shut your face. But anyway, I also just kinda want to say, Well, I don't know why you'd be listening to this. If you haven't read Pact or Pale. If you haven't-
Malia 1:55
Or just, if you haven't read Pale,
Jenny 1:57
or Yeah, I guess so. But if you haven't read either one of those, you should definitely stop what you're doing go listen to those because as we said, there will be spoilers for both those in this. And they're both fantastic stories. Highly recommend to read them.
Malia 2:10
Yeah. But as long as you're caught up with me in Pact, we won't spoil past that. Unless Jenny lets something slip.
Jenny 2:17
No, I'm, I am like a steel trap. Okay. I'm not gonna let anything slip. And if I do, you're just gonna have to edit that out. So I'll try not to make more work for you.
Jenny 2:28
But yeah, I basically convinced Malia to read Pact.
Malia 2:31
indirectly. Pact was indirect because you thought it'd be too scary for me. And we're gonna find out because I'm very afraid of everything.
Jenny 2:39
Yeah,
Malia 2:39
You convinced me to read Pact because you convinced me to read Pale.
Jenny 2:43
Yes. And that took a while because she's busy. She's a law student. So she actually has stuff to do. I actually literally sat her down and read the first chapter of Pale out loud. And instead of getting really irritated with me, it actually kind of hooked her into the story.
Malia 3:03
It worked.
Jenny 3:04
It worked! Let me see... Anything else you want to say about that, Malia?
Malia 3:08
Yeah, so I guess, to set the record, I read Worm, and then I didn't read anything else. Because I was not involved in the community or anything. I didn't really realize other things were happening. So then Jenny was like, have you heard about Ward? And I was like, what? And eventually I started reading Ward, and was slow. And she was harassing me about it. But then she started harassing me about Pale when I wasn't even done with Ward. But I finished Ward. And we are current in Pale. Pale is actually still being released right now. But we'll see what happens In terms of that, we're gonna stay on top of Pale.
Malia 3:42
I caught up with Pale and then I was like, Okay, I really need more, I need more. This, this book is so freakin good, or this story. And the only option was Pact, which I was kind of afraid of, because I heard like, Pact is kind of creepy and really intense. And I don't do well with scary things at all. But I was like, You know what, I need more. And so I read the first chapter. And I called Jenny up and I started talking about it. And I was like, This is so hilarious. Like, this person's obviously a practitioner, and this person's obviously a familiar and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then it was like, Hey, you know, it would be funny if like, we recorded all this and sent it out into the universe so that other people could like, experience reading Pact, which is very confusing, I've heard, with the knowledge of reading or of like, of the Otherverse through Pale, and they could experience that vicariously through me. I just thought it would be fun, because that was a very good conversation. And that's kind of why we're doing this. I don't know why Jenny's doing this, but that's why I'm doing this.
Jenny 4:44
I'm humoring you as your older sister, so that's why. No, I think it'll be fun. But anyway, that is definitely enough about ourselves. Let's dive in here.
Jenny 4:54
I'm going to go over basically a chapter summary and then we'll get into talking about the juicy details here. So real small summary here. We start off by meeting Blake, our protagonist. We see him arriving at his grandmother's house. There we meet his lovely family who's arguing over Grandma Rose's belongings since she's facing her imminent demise. Ends up that his cousin Molly gets everything. Rose kicks it, and then he goes back home and everything's fine until four months later. And then he has a really intense dream is given a warning by a girl in the mirror.
Malia 5:25
Yeah, you know that everything was fine, because that four months was a time skip. And Wildbow didn't tell us anything about it. So he was like, too boring.
Jenny 5:34
Yeah, that's true. Everything was actually fine. I guess just to start off, just because we're starting the story and we know nothing, what do you think "bonds" is referring to in the title?
Malia 5:48
Yeah, so it seems like this story is a lot about family... family and connections. But it also... So bonds you know, like family bonding, or as our mom likes to say, family bondage 'cause she said it wrong once. And then it just became this hilarious, awkward family joke
Jenny 6:10
That we're now sharing with everyone else. So, thank you for that, Malia.
Malia 6:15
But so, bondage, right, like being constrained ,being -- I mean, like there's the sex stuff or whatever. But I think this is more like being constrained, being tied down.
Jenny 6:22
Thanks for, like, I'm sure no one would have understood the sex stuff if you hadn't have said that, thanks.
Malia 6:27
I mean, I don't think that stuff comes in--
Jenny 6:29
Ugh way to make it really awkward.
Malia 6:31
--to this part of it. Maybe I guess it could. That's not my prediction.
Jenny 6:35
Okay, let's move on. Oh, my gosh, that's not what I want. I regret asking anything.
Malia 6:42
No, but yeah. So it's it's being it's being restrained and trapped. But also family.
Jenny 6:49
Like I feel right now. All right. So I'm definitely moving on.
Jenny 6:55
So basically, we'll start off with Blake pulls up to a house on a hill, and basically proceeds to procrastinate as much as he possibly can.
Malia 7:02
Yeah, what I kind of got from this little bit, was that parking is like, weirdly a theme. I mean, I guess it makes sense, because parking is very stressful and anxiety inducing. One of my biggest problems with going to places that I'm not familiar with is finding parking. Jenny's looking at me. Like that's dumb, but
Jenny 7:21
no, I think I agree with that. I'm still scarred by you bring up, like, sexual bondage --
Malia 7:27
Okay sorry!
Jenny 7:28
-- in a podcast. Okay. So parking is stressful. So is bringing up weird shit on a podcast. So thanks a lot, Malia. It was weird enough just bringing up that mom said bondage for family bonding. And then you had to go ahead and spell it out. It's fine.
Malia 7:44
I mean, they all knew. Okay.
Jenny 7:46
Yeah, exactly! You didn't have to-- I'm sorry.
Malia 7:48
I wanted to clarify I wasn't talking about that. Okay.
Malia 7:52
But parking, right, so, so the the uncle parked in the driveway, that's just like power move and a dick move. So that like, no one can get onto the property easily. And to be like, I was here first, but also fuck all of you. I guess we're an explicit podcast. And also, maybe it's some sort of way to like, watch people as they approach the house was kind of what I was thinking. But then also like, so he parks in the middle of the driveway, and then this, like, creepy big fence has a whole bunch of no parking signs on it. Which is just like, rude and seems unnecessary. It seems like like, not like a desolate town or whatever, but not like a thriving, you know, Metropolis where like parking is like a super valuable resource. And so it just seems kind of dicks to be like, don't park on the street outside of my super ugly fence, meh.
Jenny 8:42
Yeah.
Malia 8:42
But also just occurred to me. fits in with one of my thoughts later.
Jenny 8:50
All right.
Malia 8:50
Yeah.
Malia 8:51
But Blake, you know, he shows a little bit of his character. He's like, he's getting around the obstacles. He's getting around the no parking signs. He's getting around the parked car because Blake has a motorcycle, which both probably puts his family off. Like it's maybe an unconventional choice, but also like allows him to get around the bullshit and get closer to the house than anyone else. Maybe.
Jenny 9:14
Okay, I can see that.
Malia 9:15
Yeah,
Jenny 9:16
Also talking about some tension building, it says here. We wrote some notes down so I'm reading Malia's notes for her.
Malia 9:26
Yeah well, I mean, the house looks really creepy, but then Blake keeps trying to pretend that the house doesn't look that creepy. But it feels creepy. It's like up on this hill. And there's this really gross fence and like, oh, and like it might be Victorian. We don't really know. But then also like those the people who are watching and like probably talking about Blake, or at least he thinks that they are and he's obviously procrastinating going inside because he's like, and he keeps saying like oh damn me, damn this, damn them. Like we're not about to have like a nice time.
Jenny:Yeah, yeah, it's not really setting up like a birthday party or something.
Malia:No.
Jenny:You never know, those neighbors might just be pissed off about the parking and just be like, oh, like they're parking all over the damn place like,
Malia:But they're not parking where the no parking signs are.
Jenny:I guess that's true. So, it does, it des-- well, it describes the town a little bit, not really much. But this is Jacob's Bell. And this house basically overlooks the whole town. So it's kind of, even though not necessarily a really big house, it's kind of a... It definitely catches attention.
Malia:Right. And it seems like the neighbors could possibly be angry because they mentioned like, somewhere wanting to maybe like flatten the hill and drain the wetlands and expand the town. But like this house and this hill, are, like, kind of in the way of that as like a possible reason for like antagonism within the community.
Malia:But speaking of the size of the town, one of my random guesses is that Blake is like a musical or artsy person, because he describes the town as a two theater town, which seemed like not the descriptor that I would think of so like I live in Austin, and I don't know how many theaters are in Austin. This is already a bad analogy. But I wouldn't describe Austin based on the amount of theaters it has. I know that that's a thing some people do. And it's a thing that Wildbow specifically does in Pale. Louise thinks about Kennett and how it only has one theater. But this is after thinking about like the specific population size and how many schools there are and like that sort of a thing.
Jenny:That's fair.
Malia:It might not be that but then he also says he doesn't want to get caught up in his family's tempo. Which like, no one says. Maybe, maybe some people say it, but I was like, ooh, tempo. Ooh, theater. Ooh, there's paint on your pants. Ooh, you have tattoos that are in the watercolor style. He's artsy.
Jenny:That's true. I mean, just to go back to the theater reference for the town. FYI for everybody. Me and Malia grew up on Maui. So when I, I did varsity soccer, and we would go to Molokai to play, we would take the ferry over. And I know when I was describing, like, pretty much how small this island was. They have one theater, like one movie theater on the island. And of course, it was on the opposite end of the island to where we were. We couldn't go see any movies there. But I know I I don't know if I'm necessarily super artsy. I like art. I'm just not very talented in it. But I'm like, if it's that small, I can see them. You know?
Malia:Sure. But when I described Molokai I don't know if this has changed. Because it's been a while since we've been there. But I would say that it is a one stoplight town. Or like a one stoplight Island. Last time we were there, the whole island had one stoplight.
Jenny:Hmm. I mean, I guess that-- I guess that's true. I used to just tell people in the middle of the night like 10 o'clock at night, for this is what we do for entertainment. like you'd go get bread. Okay, so
Malia:It's great bread.
Jenny:it's not just it's not just at the bakery, you got to go down an alley and then another side alley, and they're all like, all covered with graffiti. Knock on this big wooden door. This big guy with like this little apron would come out and look really intimidating. And they had like, seriously the best bread that you've ever had.
Malia:And there was often a line.
Jenny:Yeah, it was freaking delicious. You could only-- it was only like a 10 at night. I'm sure they had an actual bakery that you can go to during the day. But that's just not as fun.
Jenny:Anyway I'm sorry, back to the actual podcast. Let me see here. So yeah, it is possible. Blake could be a fantastic musical theater person. I guess we'll just have to see.
Jenny:Let me see here, do you wanna move on with?
Malia:Mhm!
Jenny:Alright, so basically, after he gets done procrastinating and describing everything around him as best as possible, he goes inside, we get a good look at the surroundings inside the house and the first glimpse of his dysfunctional family. And oh boy. It's dysfunctional. Alright.
Malia:Right. But before he goes upstairs, the one thing I wanted to point out was the litter box, right? So there is a clean litter box. Because the cat does not use litter box because the cat is familiar for the grandma. And the cat does not need to poop in the box. I mean, like I guess maybe the cat could still want to, but it seems like that's why it's super clean. Like that's why it's pointed out that it's clean.
Jenny:That's true.
Jenny:Kind of a weird thing I noticed while rereading this again, that I'm not gonna say if it's important or not. It might be really important. It might not. There's a box of colorful cereal in the kitchen, which just, I don't know. I don't know if that seems like a Grandma Rose thing. But
Malia:I feel like Grandma Rose may indulge sometimes but I think it's a little bit more likely that like maybe the cat when it's not in cat form, really likes cereal or something like maybe it could be for Grandma Rose, but like, maybe not. Slash maybe it's-- no wait. Maybe it's for one of her grandkids who they like brought it.
Jenny:That probably makes more sense. But you never know. I mean, that could just be an unsolved mystery in the story.
Jenny:So we have quite a few of his family, basically, at this house. They're all dressed in black. They're not acting very dignified, however. They're kind of like yelling and cursing at each other, which is great, you know, really calm, nice environment for a one and a half year old. But basically, they see Blake come up. And they're kind of, I guess, shocked that he's there. He ends up going and talking to his parents who he hasn't seen in what was it about four years?
Malia:Yeah, it's -- I think he left three years ago.
Jenny:Don't bother giving him a hug or anything, but just being like, you all right? You're not in trouble? I mean, it's like, I mean, yeah. I can't help but notice you got tattoos? Oh, thanks, Dad. Glad to see you're so concerned about my well being.
Malia:Yeah, it was really sad. And it kind of took me a bit because I'm not, you know, we're just introduced to the story. It didn't really hit me emotionally as much the first time the fact that like, they don't go to him and they don't, you know, freak out with excitement when they haven't seen or heard from their child in three years. Because I was like, I don't know who any of these people are either. Like, I don't know what's going on. But it's it's really awful and sad. And like, I was thinking to myself, like, did they do enough? And like, no, like to find Blake, I mean, like, they asked around, they talked to the police. But then that was it. And like thinking about like our parents, like, they'd be in the streets like my mom would drive to like, every person's house that she knew that I ever knew, or whatever, you know, like, they would not be okay.
Jenny:I spent the night at someone's house once in college without telling her about it. And she legitimately called all of my friends asking if I was alive. So yeah, she would definitely be out there. Yeah, sorry Mom, about that.
Malia:And it was just really sad. Because like he, like, he says, like, he would have gone back, you know, so I'm kind of like, is this a cry for attention? Because it seems like his big problem with his parents is that they don't care enough. And they weren't like, I don't know if involved enough is the right term. Blake's also stubborn enough to like, remain homeless and different things.
Jenny:Mhm.
Malia:Which was hardcore, but it was really sad.
Jenny:Yeah.
Malia:I have in my notes that the lawyer found him, but the lawyer is a practitioner, so it doesn't matter.
Jenny:Okay. We don't say anything about that. You're just assuming things.
Malia:He's definitely a practitioner.
Jenny:Alright, well, we'll get there later as well. Let me see. So after he talks to his parents, he sees Callan, his cousin, whose first thing is just like you're wearing paint colored jeans. And why the hell did you come we all thought you were -- like most of us thought you were dead or something. Just like,
Malia:Callan sucks.
Jenny:Yeah, he kind of sucks.
Jenny:Anyway, so his good cousins seem to be Paige and Molly. So ends up seeing Paige first. And she tries to give him a hug. And he flinches pretty badly, and really took her aback.
Malia:Yeah, this was kind of a good character building moment for Blake I thought, because both because it's like, okay, he doesn't like to be touched. But also, this has something that has changed in the past three years. It really makes me curious about his like, backstory, his time living on the streets. And then also since, because he refers to like, it was weird talking to someone who didn't know the story. And so I assume he's really like, close and open with the people who are in his life now. But they were also there during whatever sort of trauma he experienced. And it was just really sad. And it was also like, oh, and then he tried, and it was like, so awkward and horrible. And I bet -- I hope Paige appreciated it because I don't know. It. He, I really appreciated that. He tried to have that connection with his cousin again. It was.
Jenny:Yeah I mean, I think she appreciated it. She seems to care about him quite a lot. He does kind of open up to her a bit, like a little bit, just kind of saying like, Yeah, I was on the streets for a bit wasn't really a fun time, you know?
Malia:Yeah.
Jenny:He kind of talks about how he bought his first motor bike by himself and all this stuff. So that's kind of cool. They have a little bit of small talk going a little bit of opening up, which is really good. I feel like Blake needed that.
Jenny:Let me see. They did kind of talk about as well like, some of the stories about the house. Kind of how weird it is being there and some of the old like rumors and things that they'd heard.
Malia:Yeah, one point that I drew out of that conversation, 'cause I think Molly's there by that point, was Paige says "I love arguing semantics." She'd also already said or Blake had already said, somebody had already said that she wanted to go to law school and as a law student that just made me like crack up because she's gonna love it. It's the perfect place for her.
Jenny:And specific-- yeah specifically that's talking about the duel. So there was a duel when one of our ancestors married or murdered, not married. I mean, they probably married someone too since they were talking about how like their great grandparents were hooking up. No, the duel where one of our ancestors murdered someone. And then Paige said "killed I don't think it counts as murder if it's during a duel." And then that's where Molly's like semantics. Yeah, so it seems like these three kind of have a good, like rapport going on. They thank goodness that some people in this family can get along because holy crap. It's ridiculous.
Jenny:We kind of skipped Molly come in. But she came in as well. Just talking a little bit. And she does interestingly tell Paige, like, don't take the offer. Which is interesting. Right?
Malia:Right, because -- so Molly's younger, which means based on the pattern that has been established, the older cousins going into the room first, that Molly hasn't talked to Grandma Rose. So it seems like she doesn't know exactly what the offer... I mean, like everyone knows the house. But she seems both to know more about the specifics and the particulars, but also, that's really interesting, because she hasn't been in the room yet. And she talks about how they've been living in the town. And so she's probably had more exposure to Grandma Rose. It makes me wonder if she's at this point Aware. Okay, cool. New prediction on the fly, Molly's Aware capital A.
Jenny:Okay.
Malia:But I think that, yeah, I mean, she just she helps build up the tension. And also like, the tragedy of what happens to her is like, further establishing this moment, Molly really ratchets up the tension with like, everybody hates me and like, not me personally, but like us in this town, like everybody in this town, like knows who we are and hates us. And like, don't do it. But she doesn't say why. Which is very frustrating. But it just yeah, it was really interesting.
Jenny:That was kind of interesting. When she was talking about all that, like, about a third of the people around here decided we're their mortal enemies. That's got to be more than parking. Right? So. Well, I thought it was funny.
Jenny:Anyway, so yeah, Paige and Peter go in and come out after and, basically Paige is just furious at Peter, because she's accused him of making up lies, to make it so that she wouldn't get the inheritance. Yeah he was like, what you thought I'd be on your side?
Malia:Right, which leads me to think that they didn't grow up together for some reason, which I just -- why? I'm just I'm curious. But also, it was really interesting to me that they go in at the same time. Because I mean, it there's this big thing about birth order, and like they're twins, and I mean, presumably one of them was born first. Because if not, Oh, my God.
Jenny:Yeah.
Malia:There seems to be this like thing about it. But it also seems shitty that like, everyone else gets a chance to defend themselves or something, but also the boys going in, it's like, you're not going to give it to them. So are you just asking them to rat on each other? In which case, why don't you have like the parents also involved like -- it was just sort of weird and suspicious.
Malia:So my theory, one of my theories as to, or I don't know if we should get into that now. My theory as to one of Grandma Rose's criteria for picking people.
Jenny:Sure. I'm kind of curious.
Malia:Okay. Yeah. So I well I think that her big thing... So Grandma Rose is a practitioner, I don't need to justify myself. Okay.
Jenny:All right.
Malia:But so I think her thing is, she's a practitioner, and her house is a demesne, right? And she wants to pass her house on to someone who can handle, right? She wants to make sure that the person who's going to inherit this house can deal with the practice, right?
Jenny:Okay.
Malia:And so, in the same way, sort of that like Miss was like, okay, Kenneteers, like, go a whole weekend without lying. I think that Grandma is like, probing her grandchildren to kind of see like, who's being the most truthful. And so it seemed really important that Paige and Peter came out and Peter says, like, I didn't say anything that wasn't true. That Paige was like, No, you made up lies to sink me. And it's like, okay, obviously, one of them is lying in that moment.
Jenny:Yeah, that's true.
Malia:And I wonder if Grandma was kind of like, Paige was lying. And so she can't handle or something like, I'm kind of curious because, Blake also says that like Paige is like really similar to Grandma in a lot of ways, except that she's not horrible. So it seems like they would have an affinity and she'd be like, Oh, yes. Like an aspiring lawyer, like this is so great, like, have everything, but something in that room presumably happened that had to do with the things that Peter was saying and the things that Paige was saying, I don't know if she was a lie detector or what but that seemed really important.
Jenny:Yeah. Okay. That's pretty interesting.
Malia:I think we're going to talk about Blake going in next, and I thought it was really interesting that Blake wasn't called, but he was summoned to the house.
Jenny:Hmm. Well, he cuts in though. So maybe he would have been called, right?
Malia:Well, no. Well, I mean, no, right? Cuz I don't know why. I mean, maybe the lawyer just like didn't notice that he had arrived or something, or they just assumed that he wasn't going to be there. But it seemed kind of important upon like thinking about it for like, the eighth time that Blake has to cut in, because that's where he is in the birth order. And they're like, we're into that today or something. And so he has to assert himself. And I don't know if Grandma was just like "hehe fuck him," or if like, what, but that was weird.
Jenny:Yeah, that's true. It could have been another another test or something. I dunno.
Malia:Yes.
Jenny:But yeah, so luckily, Molly gives him permission to go first because they call for Molly but she's like, yeah, you go ahead. Then Blake goes in and sees Grandma Rose. He's not exactly subtle when it comes to how he's feeling.
Malia:Right. Well, so I guess a final note about the Blake cutting in that I, I just I it it shows how much all the cousins care about each other because Blake doesn't just assert himself. He kind of does it. Like to -- it seems like maybe to give Molly some time and some space and also Paige so that Molly can go and comfort Paige. It was like a really nice moment.
Jenny:That's true. Like he's a good guy.
Malia:Yeah.
Jenny:In the middle of all this terrible family stuff. But yeah, he basically goes in. And you know, Grandma looks pretty, pretty good in terms she doesn't really like she's about to die. Room smells like flowers and fresh air. Like, pretty much opposite of death. Doesn't really seem like she's about to kick the bucket. But, you know, she's propped up. She's got some... got her nurse and she has her lawyer right there. And she has like a really big house cat. That's just chilling.
Jenny:Alright, what are your thoughts on this part, Malia? I feel like you really like this part.
Malia:I really like this part. I want to start by saying that I understand that Grandma Rose is a bad person. But like, I love her. Like, I don't want to know her in real life. I think she's a horrible person. I don't want to like be around her. But also like, this is a woman who instead of having a welcome mat was like, No, I don't want I don't care if you're here. This is my house. This is my space. And I'm gonna let you know that immediately. Because my initials are gonna be monogrammed on this fucking doormat with roses, which is probably the smell he's smelling. Because her name is Rose. And it's her house and she does not give a fuck. And I love it.
Malia:She's obviously a practitioner, right? Because this whole conversation is riddled with her being very particular about words and being very probing as to Blake's truthfulness... his, I want to say veracity. I don't remember if that's the right word. Anyway. She doesn't look like she's about to die. Her death is like, obviously, maybe magical or something. But she also knows that she's about to die. Like there's some shenanigans with a curse or a time limit on the demesne or something.
Malia:But yeah, this part's so great, because Blake, Blake is great. It's, every time I read the like, things he says to her at the very beginning. It's very shocking. But also she's just kind of like, Huh, and like, I love it. And I love how he gets her to shed a little bit of her bullshit. And be a little bit more real with him. I think she really likes that. I kind of think that maybe she, I mean, I don't see her talk with Molly, but I can see her like vibing with Blake a lot and maybe thinking like, Okay, this kid, like, maybe I should choose him except I can't because I said it was gonna be a girl. And therefore, that's happening.
Malia:Oh, and there was a, there was a moment when I first read it, where I thought Blake was trans. Because I thought Grandma was being a dick because she said something about like, oh, and I'm going to give it to a female grandchild. And I thought she was insinuating, like, oh, Blake you're trans, you're actually a girl. But he doesn't respond like fuck you, Grandma. I'm a man. Like, go away. He's just kind of like, okay, whatever, like and I was like, okay, so I don't think he's trans.
Jenny:Yeah, he probably would have. I mean, he started out with calling her. Let me see what is this? A disgusting, evil rancid cunt? Which
Malia:That's a lot.
Jenny:I mean, I know cunt's not that bad of a word in Australia. But at least if it's anything like the US, I'm assuming in Canada, it's pretty bad.
Malia:It's pretty bad.
Jenny:It's pretty bad here. But yeah, so he probably wouldn't have held back with with that. If
Malia:No, no, Blake is not there to make friends.
Jenny:No.
Malia:Blake is there to like, give his cousin some time and yell at his Grandma.
Jenny:Yes, but yeah, he definitely gives her a good chunk of his mind, which is great. And she's definitely using her words very carefully. doesn't really care about the money part. Seems like she's like "oh this ridiculous money business."
Jenny:What do you think about that she's not giving it to her kids? Like it's going to the grandkids.
Malia:Yeah. I don't have a super great guess, necessarily. So I was thinking about this, right? Because in Pale, practitioner families -- and they talk about it in like the About section for Pale or whatever -- they tend to pass on the practice. Because repetition and expectations and things like that, especially in families, like always passing it down to your kids can really strengthen like their whole practice and their whole thing, but it seems like her three -- I'm also a little unclear as to who exactly her children are. It seems like she did not introduce her children to the practice. And it makes me wonder like, because it seems like she makes some comment about her father, and I'm kind of like, okay, your dad was a practitioner. She doesn't talk about her husband. And so maybe her husband wasn't a practitioner, or something. She also has her own initials monogrammed and so like, I don't think she cared. But like, there's, she's really into the whole female grandchild. And I'm thinking maybe...
Malia:So yeah, so I'm a law student, as we mentioned, and in Property that I took like, a year and a half ago, we talked about different ways to like bequeath property. And so when you write something into your will, you can specify like really ridiculous things. And so something that they don't really have anymore, but that they used to have is called a fee tail male... fee tail being that it goes from person to person to person, like to your heirs in your line. And when there's no more heirs in your line, the property reverts back to like someone else. Sometimes, like the original owner, who granted it to you, sometimes someone else they might specify, but so the people in that line don't have any control over to like who they give the property to.
Malia:Oh, Jane Austen, there we go. In Pride and Prejudice, the girls, they can't inherit, because the way that Mr. Bennett inherited the property was through this type of land, bequeathal thing
Jenny:Huh, interesting
Malia:Which is a big plot point, right? Because they are of a high enough class where they can't, quote unquote, can't work to earn money. So one of the only ways to get money is by like owning land and property and stuff. So Mrs. Bennett is very, very concerned with marrying off her daughters, because otherwise they're like gonna be poor, because they are not going to inherit, because it's inextricably a fee tail male, which means it's going to the next male relative, which is Mr. Collins. Anyway,
Jenny:Interesting.
Malia:So I was thinking that this demesne is somehow a fee tail female, because I know from the Pact -- nope -- from the Pale extra materials that demesne can live on after people die. And so I was thinking that if her biological children are all boys, like maybe Aunt Irene married her son, who's not around anymore, which is why Molly has the same last name as everybody else. And then it's Paul, and then Blake's dad. Right? If those are the three brothers.
Jenny:Okay
Malia:then she has to give this house to a woman for some reason. Anyway. That was legal corner
Jenny:All right.
Malia:news for the day.
Jenny:That was a good, that was a good one. That's pretty interesting. All right. So y'all learned some legal stuff today. Very cool. And so did I. That's definitely a good food for thought.
Jenny:I guess moving on from that. Next thing I see in the note is that Blake couldn't accept a cup of tea because he was gonna throw it at her.
Malia:Well, I was gonna say so this is part of my Grandma Rose is a practitioner theory. This is a theory in the way that like, gravity is a theory where it's like, quote, unquote, a theory, but like, it's fact right? Um, so like, she's very particular about well, like, like what you already mentioned, right? Where she like, doesn't she's like, Oh, they care about the money. That's so whatever, because like, she has the practice, right? Like she cares about this thing that's so much more like the house to her is so much more than like, the money that can be gained from selling it. And I love this, I didn't notice this until my second read through and I was really excited. But the male nurse who I think is like an Other maybe or a practitioner or something, he definitely knows what's going on. But he, he offers Blake tea, he's like, I can offer you a cup of tea, if you promise not to throw it at her, which is really funny. But then Blake is also like, okay, don't give me tea then, because I'm gonna fucking throw it at her, which is like, evidence of Blake's like, truthfulness and stuff like Blake wasn't gonna make a promise and then break it immediately. And he was upfront about that and honest and like, whatever. And I think Grandma really liked that was paying attention to that. Because that means he maybe won't get forsworn as easily or something. Because he wasn't going to make a promise and then go back on it, which is very important for the practice.
Malia:She also was very like, obsessed with she's like, Are you accusing me of being a liar? Like, Blake almost like fucking gainsays his grandma like on her death day or whatever, but then he doesn't. He kind of like thinks about it. And it's kind of like no Technically, the thing that you said wasn't exactly a lie or something. I don't remember exactly how he says it. But it was like this funny this like, really funny moment. Because I was like, you're gonna gainsay your grandma. She's great. Anyway.
Jenny:I'm trying to think I'm trying to remember which chapter this is, and I can't quite find it in my scrambled attempts to look but I just thought I'd point out to you as well. In Pale. Do you remember at all like, I think we first had introduced it when they went to Edith and Matthew's house for that barbecue? Do you remember when they were kind of talking about how like offering like offering something to eat and drink and stuff like that?
Malia:Oh!
Jenny:Would would you time?
Malia:Kinda?
Jenny:Yeah, I just I just thought that was kind of interesting in terms of like, they offered him tea. Like, I wonder if they if that's kind of applies? Or like, do you have any thoughts? Or am I just like making up crap? That's possible, too.
Malia:No this is great. And I wish that I had reviewed that sooner I'm making this like, big notes page with all the Pale information. But I just started doing it. So I have to flush that out. But, but this reminds me of when Charles talks about being forsworn. And the spirits really care about like hospitality. And like guest rights are like a really important like, historical thing that is like passed down because he was kind of like, oh, when like, Alexander like, broke his, or when he cut his foot or whatever, because I pushed the table like that was like such a big deal because of like the guests rights and hospitality laden in with that.
Jenny:Yeah.
Malia:And I feel like accepting food creates like this hospitality guest like compact where, like, I have accepted this thing from you. And it needs to be, you need to not be poisoning me or whatever. But also, like, accepting the thing means that you have taken on certain, like guest responsibilities, I think?
Jenny:I mean, it could just be tea, because the nurse could just be a nurse doesn't have to be an Other nurse. I mean, could just be like, tea, and then like, Well, I'm not gonna let you use it as a hot missile for my infirm grandma here.
Malia:Yeah, she's fine.
Jenny:Okay.
Jenny:We also note that she's a lawyer!
Malia:I was so happy, it's so funny. And that plays into my whole, like, some of my, I mean, not really my theories, but just like, actually, it plays into a huge theory, that's gonna drop at the end of this podcast.
Jenny:All right! Yeah, we're trying to save some of the really big theories for the end just to, you know,
Malia:No I'm saving. I'm saving the one I actually didn't put this in the notes.
Jenny:All right.
Malia:I have a big, bold, specific prediction.
Jenny:All right, I'm very excited to hear to hear this. So ends up leaving with a bang, essentially, and going sitting outside, waiting until basically, I think it was like a quarter to midnight or
Malia:something like that. yeah
Jenny:around there. And then everybody gets goes back inside. And then Grandma Rose comes out, basically, is like, well, you guys are all a disappointment. And tells who gets the inheritance after all.
Malia:It was just really great. Because then Blake was like, Don't worry, the feeling is mutual, and everyone else was like, shocked because they're all like, Oh my god, the money and it's kind of like he's not gonna get it cuz he's a boy. But it's also really funny.
Jenny:Yeah. He doesn't care. So drops the bomb, poor Molly gets the inheritance. And she's like, I don't want it. And Grandma is like, well, you remain free to ignore it. And what does he say exactly? Basically, it'll get passed on to the next?
Malia:No, it's like, it's going to remain in like a trust or something until she's 25. And then she can like sell it or get rid of it or whatever, at that point. But until she's 25, she can like live on it and do a bunch of stuff with it, but she can't sell it or something. Until she's 25.
Jenny:That's right. She really doesn't want it. But everyone else like oh, I'll take it. Because they're a bunch of greedy people. But she ends up just making everybody get out. Interestingly, even though they both everyone looks super healthy. Midnight exactly. Grandma and cat die at the same time.
Malia:Yeah.
Jenny:Which is very interesting.
Malia:I don't know if this is like a curse or what because I haven't run into that too much in Pale. But there's a lot of talk about familiars and Snowdrop and like wanting to extend Snowdrop's life in Pale, right? So it's kind of like oh Ave- like Avery's big motivation right now. She's like, decided to make Snowdrop her familiar. That hasn't happened yet. But that's happening... is because she's like, oh, Snowdrop is a possum. And they don't live very long. And I want Snowdrop to be around. So a big motivation is tying their lifespans together kind of. So the cat died immediately because the cat's her familiar, right? I don't know why midnight. It seems very the practice and very dramatic. They're really into like the big entrances and the big exits. And it seems like at the stroke of midnight is like Yep, very much a thing.
Jenny:True.
Malia:I don't know why. And I don't know why she knew about it. I don't. I don't get it. I think it has to do with the house. I'm really obsessed with the house.
Jenny:Okay. All right,
Malia:like everyone else in this family.
Jenny:Yeah. Everybody's obsessed with the house. And then yeah, Blake reaches out and tells Molly--
Malia:--but before
Jenny:Oh, go ahead.
Malia:Sorry.
Jenny:No, no that's fine.
Malia:So my, the male nurse is an Other theory. I guess I should stop saying male nurse and just say nurse, but anyway, so the nurse is an Other theory, because Grandma gives the nurse some money. She's like, some of this money is going to you, you've been amazing. And he like freaks out. He's kind of like, it's not allowed, which was very much like brownie vibes to me kind of that like the brownies were gonna eat him or whatever. Because like, he was doing a thing that wasn't allowed. But also like, it felt like there was some sort of like deal or pact (ha), or whatever. And that giving money was somehow either unbalancing that or doing something like if, I mean, okay, sure. This could be the type of thing where like, at Disney World when you work certain positions, you're not supposed to accept tips, but it's the Otherverse. So it's magic.
Jenny:Hmm. All right. Whatever you say, you know, that could be right. It could be. Yeah, I mean, it might be right. That might be totally it.
Malia:But yeah, the Molly kicks them all out.
Jenny:Yeah.
Malia:Which was Molly in a way, kind of like, taking some ownership of the house, it seemed? Because Grandma was like, you can ignore this. But Molly's options were like to go home with like her family that's going to like, maybe Molly doesn't want the house because she doesn't want everyone to be like, oh, give me money. But also she, there's something else, you know?
Jenny:Yeah.
Malia:Cuz it's the practice
Jenny:True.
Malia:She in like, like taking the authority and kicking everyone out and being like, yeah, like, the lawyer will call the cops on you, like talk to my lawyer, I think took enough ownership of it that she was wrapped up enough in it. Or if she had just like gone home, some practitioner would have like, found her and killed her. And then it would have just been like, moving on, Blake wouldn't have had four nice months.
Jenny:True.
Malia:In his house.
Jenny:That's right. So with that, Blake goes home. For four months, nothing happens. It's like the most peaceful part of his life, probably. Then he has a really unsettling dream, which is very interesting. So take me through the dream, Malia.
Malia:Okay, so vision one, right?
Jenny:Uh huh.
Malia:It's a table. A long table. One side is a bunch of blonde women and girls that are wearing like specific matching ish colors. And then the other side is just like a bunch of people, a bunch of people who I think looked like they're part of one family, but like, were different ages, different genders different whatever. And so they know that something has happened. They know. There's a disturbance in the force. They kind of like mention Grandma Rose, "I hoped she would slip in her old age. She made other arrangements." So like they know Molly's dead. They know things have changed. They know the demesne has shifted hands. And they have thoughts about it. These seem to be some of Grandma's like enemies or whatever, that the girl in the mirror references. I think she references them... Anyway. And they are in the midst in this vision of arranging a marriage between what I believe might be a coven?
Jenny:Okay.
Malia:all the blonde women because they're all women. And maybe they just make them all dye their hair. Yeah, anyway, and then the this practitioner family seemed to be maybe some sort of arranged marriage or just two practitioner families
Malia:Vision number two, what we have may or may not be two Witch Hunters, or more Awoken versions of Witch Hunters, I think, I don't know if Witch Hunters can be Awoken or if that's the right term. But they seem like they're out to like, hunt down some shit because that's what they like doing. And like a metronome falls over and Blake is viewing like through the metronome. I don't know if I'm assuming like a magical metronome that like measures disturbances in the practice vibes.
Jenny:I mean, they might like music might play, play an instrument, you know?
Malia:That's true.
Jenny:Yeah, that's probably not
Malia:Everyone's musical! But so it's it's they get in a really funny Twilight dig about the sparkly vampires out west. And they also are kind of like anything that can knock the metronome over isn't human anymore, or won't be for long. And it's like, Wait is Blake turning into an Other like, I thought the story was about Blake turning into a practitioner, like, Oh, fuck, Don't know. unclear, but then it's also like, maybe he isn't knocking it over. Like maybe in the last vision. Johannes yohannes is like, manipulating things or like he's seeing the scrying bowl which is Johannes jumping around seeing things? It was it was very unclear. Okay,
Jenny:Okay. Who knows? You know>
Malia:No one knows.
Jenny:Not me. I have no idea. (I'm lying.)
Malia:And then we got some Irish people in a snowy field that seemed to be some sort of like master apprentice relationship because like the I'll give you that one for free. Like questions and answers have prices or whatever, who also are aware of this thing. Okay? They're Irish, because their names are Maggie and Padraic. I can't pronounce anything. I'm very sorry.
Malia:There's a girl pointing at a rabbit who might be her familiar or something at least an Other or something. I was thinking maybe Blake was viewing it through like a frozen pond because she like throws a rock and it shatters. Yeah. And she seems aware that she's being watched, probably knows about the disturbance in the Force.
Malia:Then there's a weathered Aboriginal woman brushing a young girl's hair, and then she shackles the girl. It gives me really strong like Tangled vibes. Like she's like, sucking the life force out of this girl.
Jenny:Okay.
Malia:which was really spooky. She also seems to know that she's being watched and dismisses the whatever.
Malia:And then finally, the last one that's described is a man on a throne at the top of a tower with his dog, who is also his familiar, in part because it speaks and it notices Blake first. There's an important note about the scene of Jacob's Bell, I believe, being lit up in crimson sunset. Either that or like... I should have paid more attention. The other scenes had been at night I don't remember if it's Jacob's Bell that's in sunset or the guy in the tower that's in sunset or both. But that seemed important. I don't know if it's like we're seeing into the future or we're seeing into the past or seeing people on the east coast and we're on the west coast, which doesn't fit in with my later theory.
Jenny:So I can read you the little excerpt if you want. So it says so below him the small village sprawled Jacob's Bell, except things were different. A twisted reflection of the buildings with embellishments and decorations, arches steepled roofs pointed roofs that curled and bent and zigzags all lit up in crimson, some sunset, the other scenes had been at night.
Malia:Okay, which kind of makes it sound like he had been viewing things through that scrying pool thing? Because Johannes seems to know some of what Blake saw, he says, resist the urge to dismiss what you just saw. And I'm kind of like, okay, like, what were the other people experiencing? Were they experiencing Blake or were they are experiencing Johannes or were they experiencing both? Was Blake sucked into some other realm and like bouncing around things? I don't know. But also, Johannes is sketch. I don't trust him. Don't trust what they're saying about me like, okay, I don't know what they're saying about you. But okay. Jenny says, Jenny says, I should let you say it.
Jenny:Wait- what do I say?
Malia:You pushed back on my distrust of Johannes.
Jenny:I mean, I just feel like, you know, he might be totally a good guy. He might be a great guy like... I'm trying to remember what I said, exactly. Okay. So for one, like, you have to think like, it does seem to be good advice to resist the urge to dismiss what he saw. Right? Like, that does seem like pretty solid advice. I mean, he offers help for a price. Which, you know, who knows what that means? You know, because he could carry your groceries for the price of like your firstborn child. You know, he doesn't specify how he how even all that is. But he does tell you to say like, you're in a bad enough situation, resist the urge to dismiss what you just saw, and do yourself a favor and wake up, which that all seemed like pretty good advice. Because I feel like
Malia:Yeah.
Jenny:you know, without, it's kind of hard to give my opinion on that without, you know, going one way or another on that, but just that part seems like probably good advice.
Malia:It does seem like he's being relatively straightforward with him. And I do think that the don't dismiss this and Hey, wake up now are both good pieces of advice.
Jenny:Yeah.
Malia:That was the dream.
Jenny:Yeah, definitely spooky.
Jenny:So basically, wakes up, feels like real crap. Ends up going into the bathroom. Probably gonna splash some water on his face. And like, look in the mirror. He looks in the mirror, and he sees a girl in the reflection. She warns him to get the hell out of there.
Malia:Yeah, and she, she also delivers really sad news because I was already emotionally invested. That Molly is dead, which was very sad.
Jenny:Yeah.
Malia:And that Blake is next.
Jenny:Yes.
Malia:Which is adrenaline inducing.
Jenny:I've gotta say like, this part is probably like, one of my favorites in terms of like most cliffhangery sections, like oh my gosh, like, I love it.
Malia:It's a great way to build tension. It's a great Yeah, like way to like propel you into the story. I already I'm sad about Molly. I'm like, What the fuck is going on? But it's also like, he says she looks familiar. Which doesn't really help because like, we don't know anyone in the story. But that was a thing. I guess. That was interesting.
Malia:Also, like the mirror right? Like, she breaks the mirror. And I'm kind of like, okay, is she like, Is this like a Percy Jackson situation where like, you can communicate through Iris message? Which is when you talk to people in like, the midst of a fountain with a with a rainbow, where it's just like, it's like Zoom right? Where you can like see each other? Or is this like, this woman is like in another dimension like in the mirror world? like Alice in Wonderland type shit? Like, I don't know, but
Jenny:I don't know.
Malia:Those are
Jenny:I feel like I need to read Percy Jackson again.
Malia:Why that was the first thing to come to mind. Y'all are gonna learn all the other book series I like by the end of this, I'm sure my references
Jenny:that's always good. More books are better.
Malia:And like Molly left the house and I'm like, why did you leave? Because it seems like she was tricked out or scared out or something but like if the house is a demesne like Okay, so the house is a demesne, right? Because like Molly left equals Molly died. I mean, I guess she, like the girl doesn't explicitly say the house. But like, I'm assuming that like the safe space or whatever she was mentioning was like the house right? Because like, it's a demesne?
Jenny:Well,
Malia:I'm assuming
Jenny:Yeah it says so she says the house is sanctuary, Blake. Molly died because she panicked and she loves the safe ground.
Malia:Right.
Jenny:So.
Malia:And I think that's a big part. That's that is like, probably the best evidence for my theory that the house is a demesne, right? Because demesnes can protect you and you can control who gets in and who gets out and like all of this stuff, then maybe Molly wasn't like fully Awoken yet. She didn't understand like the power of a demesne. And I mean, demesnes can be penetrated. But I think that, like that line is my strongest evidence for the house is a demesne.
Jenny:Okay. All right. So are we ready to get to your Bolton specific? prediction? Cuz I'm pretty curious.
Malia:Oh, I'm ready.
Jenny:Okay. All right. Go ahead.
Malia:Okay, so my bold and specific prediction is about the type of practitioner that Grandma Rose is. And I believe that Grandma Rose is a karmic law practitioner.
Jenny:Okay,
Malia:And then I stare deeply into Jenny's eyes to see if she gives anything away.
Jenny:Alright, a karmic law practitioner, okay. Talk about how you've come to this conclusion.
Malia:Okay. I don't know what a karmic law practitioner is.
Jenny:It's a good start.
Malia:So, I was I was trying to, like bolster my claim about the house being a demesne. So I went and I read the demesne text in the Pale extra materials and I took notes, right. So the thing I didn't expect was the demesne extra materials for Pale was actually provided a lot more information about different types of practitioners. And I was going through and they're talking about all these schools, right. And so you get to the quote, unquote, schools of security.
Jenny:Okay.
Malia:And one of the ones the very last one he mentions as a throwaway line at the very end of this thing is the karmic law practices, right? What have we established so far? We've established that the grandma is a lawyer. And this is the karmic law practice. So, obviously, check, right? We've also established that everybody in this village fucking hates these people. Right? Which seems like it could have something to do with karma.
Jenny:Okay
Malia:Point two, right?
Jenny:Yeah.
Malia:Point three, this is a school of security. Okay. And in the textbook, it said that the schools of security and the schools of realm are the two like most connected to and most involved with, like demesnes in general. The schools of security was like the one where they talked about the woman who was a politician for this town and the economic despair or whatever spirit was going to come and like wreck everything. And she and her family had erected like a line of demesnes to like, stave off this force.
Jenny:Yeah.
Malia:Which is my source for demesnes can exist after you die. And and so, the whole thing with the schools of security is like warning off harm. And so again, don't know what a karmic law practice is. But I have a note about Okay, all right. Yeah. Just it's a really big demesnes are really big deal for the schools of realms and security, for security particularly because they are like fortresses, right?
Jenny:Yeah.
Malia:Like the like, it's all just, it's all the walls, the big ugly walls, and the no parking signs, because
Jenny:OH my gosh
Malia:you can't let people up on your shit, right? So like the demesne, right, you got to protect it, and you got to claim it, you got to claim the area. And if people can park in front of your demesne, that lessens your claim, right?
Jenny:That's right.
Malia:And then also Molly leaving, right? The demesne because it's such a safe place because we're all security people. Right? And then the The other thing that I thought about is in that textbook, they talk about, like the claim and like how when you claim an area as yours as your demesne, it's really like hard and scary and demesnes are like the most difficult of the three major Western rituals. Because when you declare like, this is my space everybody's like, cool. I'm gonna try challenge that lol. Like there was the there was a guy in the textbook who claims a space specifically to try to like attract this one Other that he was hunting or whatever. So I think that that dream was the demesne is officially Blake's right? The disturbance in the Force, but also the like, Hey, everybody, like, Blake has claimed this thing now. Go fucking fight him. Because this is a fee tail demesne situation... get there for the security and stuff.
Jenny:All right.
Malia:And those are all my really brilliant...
Jenny:I like it. That's great. Okay. Well, we will see we'llfortunately find out relatively soon if you're right or not about the kind of practitioner.
Jenny:So are you hoping that like Blake is going to follow her footsteps and just like have like a family of lawyers?
Malia:I don't think Blake would do very well as a lawyer. I mean, his like rhetorical skills seem pretty solid. But I think he'd find a lot of the bullshit. And a lot of the like, structural pettiness of the law to be very frustrating. I know a lot of people who similarly are very frustrated with the law who arein law school.
Jenny:Yeah.
Malia:And want to like dismantle things. So maybe, but I don't see him liking it. But I don't know. I'm curious as to whether he has a choice?
Jenny:That's a question. That's, that's a good question.
Malia:Because like practitioner family and this demesne, and yeah.
Jenny:Yeah. Well, I guess we'll see.
Malia:He also could be turning into an Other What if he turns into the demesne? Ooh, ooh,
Jenny:That's the whole secret.
Malia:When you bring objects into a demesne, they become incorporated into part of the demesne and they're harder to take out. So maybe like, Grandma had to die, because she had to, like use her life force to like, strengthen the demesne. That's probably not it. That's not a Yeah. Okay.
Jenny:You're not gonna you're not listing that as a bold prediction on your part? You're just
Malia:That's a It's a specific prediction, but it is not a bold precition.
Jenny:Okay. All right. Well, that was a pretty interesting discussion I feel like so I look forward to continuing on and keep reading and see what you think.
Jenny:We do have a discussion question. We're going to try to come up with these as often as possible, might not be every week, but we'll try to incorporate it. Because we do want to try to compare Pale.
Jenny:And I guess before we get to the discussion question, like, just because our podcast is all about Pale in comparison. So I guess, what are your thoughts about this first chapter compared to I guess, the first chapter of Pale that I read out loud to you?
Malia:Right. So that's really interesting, because so you read me the prologue, right?
Jenny:Yeah.
Malia:and this doesn't have a prologue. It jumps right into the action. You know who the protagonist is, you know, what's happening.
Jenny:Yes.
Malia:They're both about smallish towns. I don't actually know if this is set in Canada, but they might both be set in Canada, which is kind of neat. They are both confusing.
Jenny:That's fair.
Malia:Because one thing is like, this would be completely incomprehensible if I hadn't read Pale, because I'm able to be like, this is the practice and this is a demesne and this is whatever, whatever.
Jenny:Yeah,
Malia:because I know what all those things are. And if they were just like, Here you go, like, go like I would have been like, oh, the male nurse can't take tips and like, oh, Grandma's mean, and like, I would have realized there was somehting?
Jenny:That's kind of interesting. I mean, I see what you mean. But like, okay, comparing those first two, though, like, which one seems more incomprehensible, because for me...
Malia:Oh, no. Yeah, the prologue is, that's what I was gonna say. The prologue was like, super bizarre.
Jenny:Yes.
Malia:The moon was bleeding. Her eyes are bleeding.
Jenny:Yeah, no, it was definitely pretty bizarre. Yeah, I feel like I mean, I feel like Yeah, when I read Pact, the first chapter made sense, and I was just more like, What? What the heck is happening? This is great.
Malia:Yeah. Yeah.
Jenny:And Pale. Yeah, I was definitely a lot of what the heck is happening? I was All I knew is like, it's the same universe as Pact And so I was like, Oh, well, this is supposed to be lighter. Like there's the moon's bleeding.
Malia:Yeah. Yeah. He really goes hard in the first like arc of Pale and he's like, Huh, let's draw back a little.
Jenny:Yeah, yeah. No, I enjoyed them both quite a bit.
Malia:I think that because Pale is setup as a murder mystery. I was like, more prepared for it to not make sense if that makes sense.
Jenny:Sure.
Malia:Like, I was kind of like, Okay, cool. There's gonna be a whole bunch of stuff I don't understand. And I mean, like, now if I was reading Pale, like if I had done what a lot of people did and read Pact and then Pale I would have been like, Oh, cool. These are Others and Oh, cool. Those are practitioners. But I would have been like, why is the moon bleeding?
Jenny:Yeah,
Malia:what is going on? And so I think that going from Pact to Pale... Pale's prologue is going to be more confusing than going from Pale to Pact.
Jenny:That's fair. Yeah. I'm kind of interested to see how as the story goes on what you think of it.
Jenny:All right. Now, to our discussion question. So we're going to be posting this on a Reddit thread. So you can either comment on that thread or send us an email if you want to give us a response, what your thoughts are to this. But, how would you compare your first impression of Blake's family with your first impression of the Pale protagonists' families?
Malia:And if you want to pick one, and highlight say, like Verona's family or something, if it feels a little too ambitious, you can but if you also want to do all of them, like, go for it.
Jenny:Yeah, more the merrier. But, yeah, I feel like that's kind of an interesting comparison. So I'll be looking forward to any answers that we get.
Malia:Just please No, no spoilers for Pact in your episodes. Hopefully Jenny will be the one that's reading them
Jenny:Yes. For
Malia:and filtering them out. But I would love to read your answers too and so try not to
Jenny:try not to spoil
Malia:spoil anything for me, please.
Jenny:Yeah, or at least cover those spoilers up if anything, and I can share the unspoiler bits.
Jenny:Anyway, thanks for listening guys. If you enjoyed this episode, and you'd like to help support the podcast, please subscribe, share it with your friends and leave a rating and review.
Malia:You can follow us on Twitter @PaleComparison, or send us an email at paleincomparisonpod@gmail.com. Keep an eye out for our Reddit thread where you can share your thoughts about our discussion question and let us know what you think about the podcast. Also consider contributing to Wildbow's patreon at patreon.com/wildbow.
Jenny:Random fact. Chicken and ostriches are the closest living relatives of the T Rex.
Jenny:Have a good one.
Malia:Bye!
