Blake's Fun, Gay Life (Bonds 1.2)
Jenny (she/her) and Malia (she/her) discuss Bonds 1.2. Blake flees to the protection of the Hillsglade House (which is definitely a demesne, trust Malia) and encounters some roadblocks along the way. Malia loves every character in this story named Rose but Jenny does not share her enthusiasm.
This week's discussion question: Rate Blake’s survival skills. How do you think Rose would have fared in his place?
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This episode was released when Pale was up to (approximately) 10.a.
Transcript
Hey everybody, welcome to Pale in Comparison. In this podcast my sister uses her knowledge of the Otherverse to take a look at Pact, Wildbow's least appreciated work, and I try to not give away any spoilers. I'm Jenny, and Malia convinced me to read Worm.
Malia:I'm Malia and Jenny convinced me to read everything else. This episode we are covering Bonds chapter 1.2. Before we get into that, however, I'd like to issue a spoiler warning! This podcast will be filled with Pale spoilers. If you don't know whether Miss ever comes back to Kennet, and don't want us to tell you, stop now, read Pale and come back to this podcast. As for Pact, there will be full spoilers through the chapter that we are covering.
Malia:The funny thing about those spoiler warnings that I'm thinking of is, like, Pale is still being written and so Jenny and I don't know some of the things that we're saying.
Jenny:I mean, that's true, but I mean,
Jenny:we'll figure it out someday. Well, maybe not. You never know. You might never know. But yeah, so we're gonna just go over Bonds 1.2. Should be a little bit of a shorter episode, just because it's a little bit less
Malia:You'll know someday
Malia:action packed
Jenny:Well, it's super action packed, yes, but a little bit less, like, things to obsess over.
Malia:Yeah
Jenny:There you go. Yeah.
Jenny:Basically, we'll start with the chapter summary here, and then we'll get into talking about it. Blake borrows a car from essentially the best landlord in the world and heads out with Rose. He tries to get some answers from Rose, but unfortunately doesn't get much information from her. A spooky figure in the middle of the road seems to tamper with the car and it breaks down so they have to proceed on foot. After a suspenseful chase and almost falling through an icy pond, Blake makes it to safety.
Jenny:What did you think of this chapter, Malia?
Malia:It was great. I mean, Rose! Rose is a thing! and, like, Molly's dead, and it's really sad, but it's both like here's some substance and also, like, haha, we're gonna throw some random Others at you. And I spent some time trying to figure out what they are. And I don't know, and I'm embarrassed. I feel like this is just gonna be the whole rest of this podcast forever is going to be me being like, Oh, that was a ghoul? That was super obvious. Haha, I suck. But it's okay.
Jenny:I mean, it's alright. It's just part of the process. I do have to say that your tone when you said Molly's dead and that's really sad just didn't sound that convincing that that was really sad.
Malia:It's really sad.
Jenny:Okay, I mean, you can try to convince me now but it's too late. No, it is really sad, actually. That was a bummer.
Jenny:Anyway, well, I'm gonna go ahead and start, or, go ahead and break this apart piece by piece. So we start off by Blake running down the stairs, basically trying to wrap his head around everything that's happening. So he's thinking a lot about the dream and mostly like, Molly. That's quite a terrible thing to wake up to.
Malia:Before we get into, like, the serious part of Molly. The very first note I wrote down for this chapter was: toque? Like Edith? Is a thing in Canada? Edith wears a toque in the prologue. And I was like, What is this?
Jenny:Mhm.
Malia:And I googled it at the time. And it was like a short brimmed hat, something something that women wear. And I was like, cool. And so when I'm reading this, I'm like, wait, why is Blake wearing a women's hat? And maybe he is, but I googled it again. And I think in Canada, it's also basically like a beanie, like a knit beanie.
Jenny:Ah!
Malia:and I was like, oh, that does make sense. But now I'm like, wait, what was Edith wearing? We just don't know.
Jenny:I mean, I guess if you think about the name beanie, like, that doesn't really make a lot of sense, at least to me, unless there's some really obvious thing, but I'm like, it doesn't look really like a bean. Like, I mean, toque sounds a little more dignified than a beanie at least saying like,
Malia:Yeah, no.
Jenny:I'm putting on my toque, or like, I'm getting my beanie on.
Malia:I liked it. But, I don't... yeah.
Jenny:No, I totally had to google it, too, I was like, I don't know what, what this is. If this is like a scarf, or if this is like, if she's like having a toke of something. I mean, I don't know. Like
Malia:yeah, it doesn't help that like, I've lived for one year in real winter. And have you ever lived in real winter?
Jenny:Well, we're in Texas, and we did just have an exciting week.
Malia:So, technically, yes. But you didn't have the opportunity to like purchase outdoors cold gear before...
Jenny:Oh, no, no, we were dreadfully underprepared. It was bad.
Jenny:Yeah, no, I don't know what that is. I had a bunch of winter stuff that I ordered just before then. That just came in now, now that it's, yeah, back to like 70s weather, which is great. So that's alright, if it happens again. I'll now have my winter gloves. And so that's But anyway, No, I have not really lived in real winter.
Malia:So, toques
Jenny:Toques.
Malia:God only knows.
Jenny:All right.
Malia:So the thing I really got out of this section was him talking about Molly. And we talked about this a bit last time, I think. I'm having a little bit of a hard time remembering what I talked to you about in the conversation to like, start this podcast and then like what we've talked about on the podcast, but that won't be a problem from now on. Anyway. Um, "Why hadn't she called me?" like, because he does at the end of the chapter, say, hey, Molly, like, Do you need my help? Like, let me know and Callan like fucks that up?
Jenny:Yeah.
Malia:Which maybe is like, I'm still on my karmic law thing, right? So I'm like, is that a was that a karma moment where Callen just happens to like, totally undercut that as legitimate, like, I'm actually trying to help you thing, like in that moment, or is he just like, I mean, he's a dick, but like, because it seems like she almost was like, oh, Blake is someone I can maybe trust and then Callen totally undercuts it.
Malia:But while he's thinking about this, Blake thinks about Molly as the child she had been 10 years ago. And I'm like, wait, Have you not seen Molly in 10 years? You ran away three years ago? What happened during those seven years? Because it seems like y'all hang out hung out as children? How far away do y'all live from each other? It didn't seem like people were living that far. But like, no one else lived in Jacob's Bell, I guess. I just, that was weird.
Jenny:I mean, I don't know if it necessarily means he hasn't seen her for like, 10 years. I think it's just like, that's where their happy childhood memories were from. And so that's kind of what he's reaching towards. That's kind of what I took it as at least
Malia:Yeah. I mean, it also seemed odd that Blake was like, Molly, why? Why didn't she call me when, like, he didn't reach out to Molly or Paige when he ran away. But on the other hand, he had just seen her and been like, hey, please talk to me. And they're more like adults now. And so they have a little bit more agency and stuff. But it was just, it was just really sad. But also like, what is Molly going to say? Like, hi Blake, magic is real, like, come to the house, like I'm about to die, and maybe you will, too. It's gonna be awesome.
Jenny:I mean, also, if you bring it back to Pale, though, like think about like, all the Aware, and how, you know, the protagonists in Pale, like, they can't exactly just go around telling everybody. And because there's consequences for them if they do that, right? So it's like she could call for help, but like, besides actually like, awakening him and everything and bringing all that responsibility onto her, you know, what can he really do? Let her borrow his crappy motorcycle. I'm sure it's a wonderful motorcycle. He just thinks it's crappy. Or he said is crappy. So
Malia:Right. I mean, I'm not sure what Yeah, like what Blake could do. I think he has like an older motorcycle. So or like, it's, you know, not as new and expensive or whatever. But I don't know that he could have necessarily helped. But like, we got more of the story. So Blake presumably survives, and so he's, I mean, maybe it's not him.
Jenny:You don't know anything!
Malia:Okay, fair. But maybe Rose is better at the practice or something. And like, helps Blake through the whole thing. Seems like he could have done something.
Jenny:And keep in mind, you're still, I mean, you have a very good guess that I'm not telling you if it's right or not, but we still don't know exactly what kind of practicing Grandma Rose has been doing.
Malia:Right. And I still don't know what karmic law practice is.
Jenny:I, I mean. That's, I guess that's true, but it sounds it sounds cool.
Malia:Sounds cool. But speaking of karma, I was thinking maybe like, because Blake was like, I mean, he he never said everything in our family was great until dot dot dot. But he does say like, Paige and Molly were like the two good things from my family. And I'm wondering like, is the family shit because of karma? Or are they shit just because they suck? Maybe it's both?
Jenny:I mean, I don't know.
Malia:Yeah,
Jenny:That's a good question. I mean, you might find out more later, but it might also just be like, actually, these people are secretly really wonderful. And you just don't know it. But you know, you don't know. You'll find out.
Malia:One last thing before we move on. Speaking of my predictions, Blake explicitly refers to the guy and the girl, the man and the woman whatever in their 20s with the pizza boxes, and the metronome as Witch Hunters. Check, confirmed, done. I'm right, obviously.
Jenny:Good job.
Malia:But I hope that they are even more now because Wildbow throughout this chapter, does a whole bunch of things with words that are very hilarious that I'll probably point out that are very funny for someone who knows what's going on and wouldn't stand out as strange at all for someone who doesn't. And I enjoyed those parts a lot. And that is potentially one of them. If they are Witch Hunters, which I hope they are.
Jenny:They very well might be.
Jenny:So basically gets down all those stairs, knocks on his landlords door ends up waking him up criminally early and essentially trades vehicles to really dumb it down.
Malia:Yeah, Joel is so great. And it reminds me a lot of the stuff we were kind of talking about last chapter shocker. How Joel is kind of like, part of Blake's new family like Blake's new support system.
Jenny:Yeah.
Malia:Blake is like, Yeah, he knows I'm not going to accept the hug. And so it's like, oh, like Joel is one of people who's been there for him and who understands. I just feel all like warm and happy in this moment, even though it's scary, because he just is obviously like, really loved and really supported and cared for, but also like, he has an active role in the community like he--more and more points for Blake is artsy--was helping to set up for Goosh's show, which like, what the fuck does that mean? No one knows. It seems awesome. And also, Joel is like a landlord. And I've never been friendly or anything with a landlord and like,
Jenny:Yeah
Malia:he obviously just cares so much for Blake and it makes me feel like it's not just Blake, but that he's part of this community that really cares for each other of, like, awesome, artsy queer people
Jenny:No, for sure. I mean, not like I'm saying all my landlords in the past have been, like, terrible or anything, but I mean,
Malia:Right
Jenny:there's landlords, I mean, they definitely would never give me their car.
Malia:Their car
Jenny:Never, even if I had keys to trade them, like there's no frickin-- well, I mean, our landlords, at least my landlords like, usually we're at a totally different building, so I couldn't get there anyway.
Jenny:But yeah, so that was a kind of a nice surprise. I feel like to read about and be like, wow, this guy is fantastic. Blake you like did good with
Malia:Well 'cause especially because he's like, he runs up to the door. And it's like, I knock on my landlord's door. And it's like, why?
Jenny:Like, what the hell are you doing?
Malia:Yeah, and he's really annoyed. And it's like, I need your car. And I'm like, what???
Jenny:Why, why do you think this is gonna work?
Jenny:Yeah.
Malia:And immediately, he's just like, oh, baby, I'm so sorry. And I'm just like, Aw. It's funny, too, because he's like, my bear of a landlord. And I don't remember if I got it the first time. But it's funny because he's a bear because he's gay. And so it's, I'm like, just picture him as this like, big kind of hairy man who's really good at hugs. Because I was like, Oh, is he and then he's like, he calls him baby. He talks about the show and the sisters, which like, I guess I'm assuming the sisters were trans. They might not be. But it was just kind of like, aw, this seems like a lovely place. And I kind of hope we never see Joel again. Because maybe he lives if we never see him again.
Jenny:Well, all right. Well, we will see. But yeah, he's pretty wonderful. That part when the lights like went out, and, like Rose is behind, or like, you know, trying to, like, make motions like Hurry up, you know, creepy, right?
Malia:Yeah. It also made me wonder about, like, we haven't talked about who and what maybe Rose is yet. But she's she doesn't speak in that situation. And I was kind of like, hey, um, why? Like, I was wondering if could Joel hear her if she talked? Maybe she didn't know if he would be able to hear her or not. Maybe she didn't want Blake to like, start speaking back to her and be like Oh the crazy guy. Why What's going on? Because I was like, presumably, Joel wouldn't be able to hear or see her. But maybe he would. And that was just sort of an interest-- Or maybe she didn't know?
Jenny:It probably would have. I mean, yeah, I was like, go back to sleep, bro. Like,
Jenny:Yeah
Malia:But I really appreciated her attempt to save Joel. Even though it was not confirmed that something bad would have happened to him. It seems like it could have.
Malia:yeah
Jenny:go sleep it off. Yeah.
Malia:But it was a really amazing balance of tension and security in that moment, where like, I felt really safe, like, standing there with Joel.
Jenny:I know!
Malia:which was so great. And really warm. But then also like, there's a girl like freaking out and like you have to go You have to go and like that was a really inte- like, great feel- I don't know, it was like I both felt safe and protected, but also like, tense and freaking out.
Jenny:Yeah. It's a good contrast. Like, yeah, that like it kind of helped lighten it a little bit, but then kind of brought you right back into the moment like, Oh, yeah, we kind of have to go immediately.
Malia:Yep.
Jenny:All right. Well, basically, the next part gets in the car, basically, while driving Blake attempts to grill Rose on what the heck is happening. It's not very successful. She doesn't seem to really know that much more. Or at least she's not telling him. What did you think about, I guess, what she was telling, like, her explanation on like, what she is?
Malia:See, I feel like you're just like, way more sus of Rose or whatever than I was at this point. I was just, I mean, I'm still like, I believe her and I trust her and I love her
Jenny:Hey, I'm not saying anything one way or the other.
Malia:Okay
Jenny:I'm not saying anything one way or the other. I'm just saying Like, we don't know, like she could be 100% honest. I mean, granted, I actually do know, but I'm not telling you. She could be 100% honest, she could not be. I'm really not trying to push you one way or the other. I'm just saying.
Malia:Right. Well, I mean, I think that one of the really interesting things was she admits that she doesn't know if she's, she doesn't know if she's telling the truth. Like she doesn't know if she's like been created and manipulated or whatever, somehow, and is like going to fuck Blake over, she just kind of knows like, I really believe her that she's like being as honest as she can. There are moments where it's like, she tells him how Molly died later and different things, but I kind of think, like, she wasn't purposely being evasive. It was just kind of like, holy shit, we have to go Holy shit, there's an Other. And so I really like her. But I'd like to talk a little bit about what she is.
Jenny:Yeah, for sure.
Malia:Okay, so it seems like Rose came into existence when Molly died, is kind of what I'm
Jenny:Kinda what it seems like
Malia:thinking.
Jenny:Yeah.
Malia:Right. And I think that Rose is like a manifestation of all of the like, desires that his parents had to have had a daughter, like wishing Blake was a girl for so long, like maybe is somehow it reminds me of like an echo or like, humans can manifest Others and different things.
Jenny:Yeah.
Malia:And I don't think his parents did it. But I think that somehow his grandma was able to, because Rose says Grandmother is trying to game the system somehow. And I think that Grandma has somehow manifested Rose into being or something based on like those desires and impulses. I don't know why she's in a mirror. It reminds me a little bit of Ken in Pale, like, I don't think like Grandma had to go ask some like, judges or whatever to like, make Rose because it's not really the same level or anything at all.
Jenny:Okay.
Malia:but just kind of like the idea of like, like the concept of a thing becoming manifest.
Jenny:Sure.
Malia:And I just feel like really bad for her the way she describes the environment she's in that it's just darkness everywhere, except where the light through mirrors comes in. But it's not all mirrors. It's just the ones in the house and the ones by Blake and she had to like blindly leap to where Blake was, and is like going to be lost in the darkness or something if he leaves. She's like, I don't feel like I experienced any of my memories, which is like, why I think she was recently created, I don't know if that's the right word. And she doesn't respond to the cold. And she, she's like my heartbeat, like doesn't feel real. And that's just like, like,
Jenny:That's scary, yeah.
Malia:It's really scary! And especially because I was thinking the first time I read it, oh, she's just kind of gonna be there at the next mirror. But then when I was really trying to think like, no, what is this experience like? I think she might have to run. And like physically follow where Blake is.
Jenny:Hmm. Okay.
Malia:I mean, she had the weird, like, I jumped to him thing or whatever. But I think it makes some sense. I guess she can like ride in vehicles. Like if if she can see the vehicle, she can like, ride in it, or whatever if there's light there. But it seems like because I was thinking it was like a, like a Zoom call. If I'm sitting at a computer, and someone else is like walking around and showing me their apartment. But I don't think that's what it is. I don't think she just sits in front of the mirror. I think she has to physically, like get to the next. Like if the mirror is moving. But I'm not positive. It's just like that was the physicality that made sense to me. I don't know if she like winks out of existence when there's no reflection, but she was very worried about being left in the car.
Malia:Okay. Yeah.
Malia:And I'm worried that... I don't know.
Jenny:I'm kind of wondering. So I know. Like, she basically was like, I'm you except that I'm a girl. Right? Obviously, at least to me, when I first read this, it seemed kind of obvious. Like, they don't have the same personality. Right?
Malia:Mhm.
Jenny:And not, not just that, but like, they were talking about their families and stuff like that. Like, she was still living at home. Or he moved out like three years ago. Right? It seems like they have different family lives too.
Malia:Yeah, I mean, she didn't seem like completely thrilled with her parents. She was kind of like, yeah, they were like really mad at me for not getting the house. But I guess I kind of just chalked that up to like, they would have treated Blake better if he was a girl.
Jenny:Ah, okay, that's fair.
Malia:He wouldn't have had a lot of different problems. He wouldn't have felt like he needed to leave because it seems like he left in large part because he felt a lack of like attention and love from his parents. I think that Rose
Jenny:probably got more
Malia:didn't-- Yeah.
Jenny:Yeah. Okay, that's fair.
Jenny:This is kind of random. I'm kind of cu-- like something popped into my head in terms of comparing Pale in terms of one of the characters. So you're talking about like, you know, she pretty much pops into existence in terms of like, I dunno, I was kind of wondering like, what do you think about like comparing her to like Tashlit? In terms of Tashlit like, you know, she grew up totally normal. And she didn't realize she was an Other until she kind of just turned into an Other. It was kind of like a drastic change.
Malia:Yeah, I actually did think about that a little bit while I was reading like, one of my questions is, is Rose an Other? And I want to say yes.
Jenny:Okay.
Malia:Based on my theory that she just like popped into existence and she lives in this mirrorverse and stuff like I don't think that qualifies as human.
Jenny:Yeah.
Malia:And I did kind of think like, Oh my gosh, to go your whole life and then suddenly, You're something else, but it's like, Rose didn't go her whole life she has these like artificial memories of her whole life like simulated.
Jenny:But she feels like she did, though, you know, so.
Malia:Right.
Jenny:Yeah.
Malia:Yeah, that's just gonna be real traumatic. And like, I love Tashlit, and I hope that I love Rose as much as I love Tashlit.
Jenny:Tashlit is like, way more chill about all that stuff than I would be just saying
Malia:yes.
Jenny:Like, oh my gosh
Malia:yes
Jenny:I don't understand that.
Malia:I mean, a lot of it is just like, a lot of her personal strength, I think.
Jenny:Yeah.
Malia:But on one hand, like, she doesn't have an option.
Jenny:True.
Malia:Like there's nothing else
Jenny:But people can still freak the hell out if they don't have an option, you know, but
Malia:right.
Jenny:It is kind of
Malia:Like Melissa.
Jenny:awesome that she doesn't. Well, Melissa, you could say that she does have an option, that she's just not really
Malia:That's true.
Jenny:She could be making things better for herself. But
Malia:Yeah, Tashlit totally could just like wallow in misery or like, lash out at people or like, do a bunch of things.
Jenny:Yeah.
Malia:but I think she's decided that the her best way forward is to just kind of like accept what's happening and then.
Jenny:Exactly. So I guess we'll see what Rose does. And I don't think she's like, not insinuating she's gonna wallow or anything like that. But it is a big, like a big change.
Malia:Right. Well, so I was thinking when you were formulating the question that you were going to talk about Snowdrop. Because Snowdrop, I mean, Snowdrop the possum still existed before the Forest Ribbon Trail, but was kind of like, manifest into existence as Snowdrop as combination of like, Avery... And it seems like Rose... I mean, maybe Rose isn't a lot of Blake. Maybe Rose is just, she doesn't come from who Blake is now. She comes from like, what could have happened if Blake had been raised differently?
Jenny:Okay.
Malia:I thought that was interesting.
Jenny:That is interesting. I'm not gonna lie. I didn't think about that. But that is possibly a better fit. Or at least just as good of a fit.
Jenny:Oh, yeah. So that we talked about the line of succession, which is kind of interesting, too. I get that-- Or what did you think about about that, I guess. I'll just ask you. What do you think about that?
Malia:I don't know if Grandma Rose hates Molly or loves Molly. Or like either thinks really poorly of Molly or thinks really good of Molly. I don't think she thinks poorly of Molly. But like, presumably, she was like, Molly has the best chance of making this work. But she was also like, Molly's gonna die. Like Molly's gonna have to face all this like horrible shit. Right? Like, like, I think a lot about Charles and like, Don't do this. Like don't say yes. Like, don't take the deal.
Jenny:Yeah.
Malia:And being like, well, this grandchild is gonna have to go through all of this. And I can't I don't know why I don't understand Molly enough. Especially because Paige is at the bottom. And Paige was like, compared to Grandma by Blake. He was like y'all like they're really similar. And Paige was like, seems great. She's last and it just really drew me back to the Peter page thing where like, he must have said something really bad or she must have said something really bad or Grandma must have like, read into something.
Jenny:Yeah.
Malia:I also have like, very unformed thoughts about Peter and Paige and like Blake and Rose. Because like, Peter and Paige are twins and like Blake and Rose are sort of twins.
Jenny:Okay.
Malia:And like it seems like Blake, like the shenanigans are that Blake can be in this line of sucession because Rose exists but doesn't exist. Like I think that like Rose's essence is what allows Blake to be in this line. And I don't know if Peter's essence like fucks Paige over or,
Jenny:yeah
Malia:it seems like there might be something.
Jenny:Okay, interesting.
Malia:It's Molly, and then Blake slash Rose, and then its birth order until Paige gets thrown in at the end. And yeah, like that the two and a half year old is put over...
Jenny:Over Paige. Yeah,
Malia:yeah.
Jenny:Poor Paige. Or actually
Malia:Or like, Yay?,
Jenny:Maybe? Or like Yay, Paige!
Malia:again, it's very unclear.
Jenny:Yes, true.
Jenny:All right. The lawyer kind of helps Rose out. That's like what she was talking about as well the lawyer kind of gives her a little bit of info. He basically tells her everything that that she knows right now. And she's trying to relate to Blake.
Malia:Right. So the lawyer is definitely, I want to say definitely a practitioner, like the lawyer knows what's up.
Jenny:Yeah.
Malia:All right. We established that the lawyer knows what's up.
Jenny:He knows what's up for sure. Yeah. So they basically talked about Rose's memories and the kind of differences between, well, a little bit the differences between her and Blake's. Like, he doesn't really go into it because he's a little suspicious. Like, the more he talks to her, the more He's like, I don't know if I can really trust you because I'm not 100% sure if you're being like straight with me, you know?
Jenny:Yeah, any other thoughts on this section or keep on moving?
Malia:I wrote in the notes. I was trying to think, okay, if Blake were to die, what would happen to Kathy? How would she find out? Does she have some sort of doppelganger or whatever like living in her head or her mirror or whatever? I don't think so. I don't know what would happen to any of the other women in line. Maybe they get a phone call from the lawyers. I don't know why Blake didn't get a phone call. But like then I was like, Oh, wait, you know, is Rose an Other and then I was like, Is she a doppelganger? And then I was like, What? Wait, what even are doppelgangers? I think doppelgangers like take over people's bodies and like lives, and I don't necessarily think she's that although she could be... dun dun dun.
Jenny:She's not being very sneaky.
Malia:Yeah, I really, I really hope she gets out of the mirror and like, becomes manifest as a whole person and lives a nice life because I like her. I like everyone named Rose.
Jenny:We'll go ahead and move on with that then. So basically, after talking with Rose a bunch, ends up seeing this really tall figure in the middle of the road with the creepy bird masks, ends up passing. And he's like, Okay, I guess that's fine Rose is like, he's definitely like, still here. And he's like, uh, I don't see anything. But the car proceeds to die along with I want to say all the other electronics or at least his phone dies as well
Malia:I think he just mentions his phone.
Jenny:Yeah. I don't know if there's other electronics in the car. But yeah, his phone dies as well. So he grabs the tire iron and rips off the, I think, rearview mirror. And proceeds on foot.
Malia:This was intense and great. I was I was I'm trying to figure out Awareness. I feel like we talk about like, the Aware and stuff in Pale, but I feel like I still don't fully understand. Because I'm like, okay, is Blake Aware at this point? Like, is that why he can see the Other? Or is it a practitioner? With a crazy mask? Who's 8 feet tall?
Jenny:Hmm. I mean,
Malia:could be a thing
Jenny:could be thing.
Malia:Yeah, glamour, except not. This, these are not fairies. That's a prediction that if it's fairies, I don't know what I'm doing. Okay. Because Blake can see this thing. But he doesn't sense like Rose does. And I was like, okay, is Rose more Aware because she knows, that it's like, latched on or whatever? But then maybe her like super Other powers allow her to know things like that. Because she's like, Oh, I knew that something bad was in the apartment building or whatever. And so I don't know if that's like the Sight for like, mirror people. Or like, yeah, I can't tell if she's a normal Aware and Blake isn't or if Blake's a normal Aware and she isn't or what.
Malia:But I spent some time trying to figure out and have a good guess for what this Other is. I don't. I think it is an Other I don't think they're practitioners. I don't think practitioners would necessarily be eight feet tall, but also, the way they describe the hands is really creepy. And I also think that a practitioner wouldn't follow directions as precisely for as long when it was like not necessarily going to work anymore like they do at the pond, presumably. But yeah, I I tried to figure out what kind of Other this is. And I don't know. The themes are it drains energy. I don't... maybe it can suck your life away? I just I was like, what sort of like manifestation of draining energy because the gas and then the phone battery, right? But then the long cloak is like a bunch of tanned skins which is gross.
Jenny:True.
Malia:Or maybe not that gross? I don't know. And then the bird skull on the antlers. I'm like, okay, so there's like some like, wild forest-y, scavengery predatory type vibes.
Jenny:Mhm.
Malia:It kinda reminds me--I don't remember the descriptions for these. Avery fights, the things in the Ruins. The incarnate things? Did one of them have like an antler skull or something?
Jenny:Okay
Malia:like the hun--like hunt or something. They don't act like that. But maybe that sort of vibe.
Jenny:I almost thought you were gonna be like, oh, it drains energy and stuff. So it must be like some kind of tech thing.
Malia:No, I, no, I didn't think so. I'm assuming there's not a lot of technomancy in this book. And I'm assuming there's not a lot of Oni in this book,
Jenny:Why are you assuming that?
Malia:because there's a decent amount in Pale which is probably dumb.
Jenny:I mean--
Malia:Because I assume there are a lot of Faeries in this book, and a lot of goblins. But
Jenny:Why is that? That's I'm just curious. Like, that's kind of interesting.
Malia:People seem to have opinions on Faeries and goblins. And they didn't seem to have opinions, especially on Oni but also on like technomancers.
Jenny:Okay,
Malia:Because sometimes I'm like, maybe it's Oni but like, I don't think Oni are really gonna be in this. I could be wrong.
Jenny:Interesting.
Malia:Sorry, everyone.
Jenny:It's okay if you're wrong. I mean, what are they gonna do? It's fine.
Malia:They're gonna be like she doesn't know things and they're gonna stop listening
Jenny:She didn't read the book! That's why she doesn't know things! Yes. Fine, it's alright. I mean, they'll they'll get over it, you know? I mean, if they don't, then they probably should talk to someone. cuz that's kind of a weird thing to get stuck up on. But
Malia:Before we leave this section, I was thinking a lot. I was very focused on the car, because I was like, This is Joel's car and like, what's Joel gonna think and is Joel ever gonna get his car back? I was very happy that Blake gave him his his bike's keys.
Jenny:Yeah.
Malia:Because I was like, that's really nice. And like, especially on the reread, I was like, oh, man, Blake is not gonna get that car back to him. I mean, hopefully he gets it back. But when they like ripped the rearview mirror off, I was like, that had to happen. But bummer. And I was like, somebody is gonna find that tire iron. And... but Blake locks the car and I was like, good job, Blake. Wonderful.
Jenny:There you go. I know, you save that suit he's got in his truck, and I think rollerblades
Malia:Oh, I don't know.
Jenny:I'm not gonna lie, when I was reading that, I was like, Why doesn't he try to put those on? Like skate to to freedom.
Malia:He'd probably fall in like the snow. The snow!
Jenny:Oh, I guess that's a good reason. Nevermind. Would've just involved me paying a little more attention to what I'm reading
Malia:Now I'm just thinking about Joel. And his like, gayness and the shows. I wonder do they do some sort of like roller skating show? anyway.
Jenny:All right. I think that's time to move on.
Malia:I'm really curious! I need the prequel to Pact where we learn all about gay like Blake's fun, gay life. I don't know if he's gay, but he might be.
Jenny:So Blake ends up getting chased. Starts off by that one creepy bird dude who catches up basically makes it seem like he either wants him to get hit by a car or go get lost in the woods and freeze to death. And so Blake ends up going into the woods 'cause he's like I basically can't just sit still and do nothing. I have to act have to run do something. Ends up that I believe a total of four of the creepy bird people show up. One of them has like three masks, gets cornered at this icy pond. It's really creepy because the guy with the three masks seems to have a mask just for Blake, whatever the hell that means. Basically manages to break the ice and topple this couple of those bird people in there with Rose's help. And then he makes his way to safety after that. So Blake did real good.
Jenny:He might be.
Malia:Blake did, yeah, Blake and Rose did solid. They're good duo.
Jenny:Yeah, I mean, I'm not gonna lie, Rose was not really there for a good amount of it because the mirror got real fogged up.
Malia:Blake's wits and things figured things out. But Rose did make a nice sacrifice, arguably to save her own skin at the end, which was good.
Jenny:Yeah, no, that was good. I felt kind of frustrated with Rose when I first read this. Not very fairly. I gotta admit.
Malia:Tell me Tell me more.
Jenny:I mean, granted, I know this isn't fair. Because if I was stuck in a mirror, scared to death, I probably would be acting exactly the same way. But just you know, Blake, you can tell he's all about action. He's like the one trying to do all this stuff. I feel like Rose, she's kind of stuck. You know, it's not like she can be out there doing all that stuff. But a few times, she would say things like, oh, like you have to have a plan. Or like if you're gonna move and he was like, Well, do you have any fucking ideas? And she just like, didn't say anything. It was like, you know, I know what you're saying. But since he's obviously in the more precarious situation at least, like in the immediate, like, we don't know what's gonna happen or if he dies. So it might be just as bad. But you'd think she'd be trying to come up with a few more ideas, or just something? She definitely did step it up when she broke--helped to break that that ice for sure. But it was just kind of frustrating because she, I felt like every time she mentioned something, she'd be like, oh, like, yeah, you gotta have a plan. Or like, if you're going to, I don't know what to say or? Yeah so I just got kind of frustrated by that.
Malia:Yeah, that's really interesting. And I get what you're saying now that you've pointed it out. I think I just like, related really hard where I was like, yeah, Blake, you need a plan! Like, you can't, what are you doing? As a reader, it was like, yeah, Blake, go! But as like a person I was like, Yeah, like what the fuck? I wouldn't. I mean, maybe I would. I've never been in a situation like anything near like that. But I really related to the freaking out and stuff. And I guess the like, her not telling him some things and not contributing as much wasn't proof of her trustworthiness. But I think that she's overwhelmed. She doesn't even necessarily know what is important in the moment or what's not important. And I think that like the things that were great. They seem to kind of actually work well together.
Jenny:Yeah.
Malia:Because Blake's like, this is like, tell me a direction like this is what I need.
Jenny:True.
Malia:And she just, you know, she does it and he's able to kind of snap her out of her panic, and maybe inspire her to break the ice or help him break the ice. But I think that Blake is going to get into a lot of bad shit because he doesn't sit down and think things through. And I bet it's also gonna save his life a bunch like it does here. And I get what your question was earlier that they have strong personality differences. But to me, this is like Blake is a deeply traumatized person. He doesn't want people to touch him. He doesn't, whatever, I'm assuming that a lot of that has to do with like, the three years since he's been home and also like the lack of love he felt from his family.
Jenny:Sure. Yeah.
Malia:So I think again, like Rose hasn't had these experiences and is like, coming from a much more privileged place than Blake is, weirdly cuz she's in a mirror.
Jenny:Well, yeah. But
Malia:But yeah, I think that that was really interesting.
Jenny:Yeah, no, it's definitely really interesting. He lost his scarf, which was very sad.
Malia:Oh, that was sad. He also loses his toque [note: mispronounced like "toke"] R.I.P. toque.
Jenny:That's even more tragic. Because we need we need toques. I mean, you know? I mean, that's just really like, not cool.
Jenny:Also, interestingly, just like a lovely little tidbit of info, just to really raise the morale while they're in this like, precarious situation, you know, Rose mentions that Molly was clawed to death. Which also just... oof.
Malia:Oof.
Jenny:makes it so much worse than I mean, not any kind of death is bad, but, you know, clawed to death and being partially eaten. That's not a great way to go.
Jenny:That's real bad.
Jenny:Yeah, that's real bad.
Malia:I mean, and just like how scary it is, and how she must have been like, chased, and like how scary this is. But Blake has figured out some ways to not get attacked, whereas Molly just straight up didn't have that. And she probably knew more about like, what was chasing her than Blake does at this point. And like, that was also probably really scary. It's just like, so scary and violent and painful and awful. And I'm really sad.
Jenny:Yeah. So do you think it was the same thing that like, is chasing him that got her or like,
Malia:No.
Jenny:no
Malia:partially, because I think one of them mentions like, these don't seem like the type to eat you. I think Rose mentions it like that, or something.
Jenny:Mm, That's right.
Malia:I kind of think that the people we saw in the dream visions, and possibly other people are like sending Others and different things to try to kill whoever's in the house to try to establish a better claim. So I think that the-- whoever managed to kill Molly isn't actually the people who have found Blake.
Jenny:Okay
Malia:To bring things up, some of the funny sentences that I mentioned at the beginning of this episode were in this section. Blake said, I was fully aware of what was going on, which was funny, because is he fully aware capital A, we don't know. And then he said, others were drawing closer, which was also funny. Those are the two I wrote. It was real good.
Jenny:That's pretty good.
Jenny:Yeah, so basically ends up throwing a rock knocks a hole with Rose's help in the pond and gets two of them in there, manages to run to safety. Find some random dude on the side of the road that's real concerned. Like, please let me take you to a hospital for the love of all things. Let me take you to the damn hospital. He's like, I'm fine. I just need some-- He's like, I don't want to go to the hospital, because might be some creepy things coming after me there. I don't know.
Malia:Yeah, I was curious about that. Because, Blake kind of understands that these Others maybe want to attack him when he's around other people. And I was kinda like in a hospital, you're going to be around a bunch of other people. But he has a very good point where like in a hospital, especially depending on the condition he's in, it might be much more difficult to run away.
Jenny:And in the condition that he's in, it might be a lot easier to fake a death, because people die in hospitals, you know, and so, yeah, it just might be a lot easier for them to--to fake it
Jenny:I don't know if he came up with that excuse or not, though. What did he say? Do do doo...
Malia:I don't think he mentioned that specifically, but that is a good point.
Jenny:That's a good point. Yeah. Although, you know, hospitals are good in general, people.
Malia:Pro hospitals
Jenny:Pro hospitals.
Malia:Pro vaccine.
Jenny:Yes. Pro vaccine. Get your COVID shots. Get all your shots. Get your damn flu shot. It's gonna make you feel a little it might make you feel a little under the weather. It's not the actual flu, it's just your body's immune response.
Malia:But it might not. You know, I've never felt sick after a flu shot.
Jenny:Oh, that's good. I have but it's a lot better than the actual flu because I've gotten the actual flu too and that sucks. Like so much freakin worse, man. Anyway, I'll stop talking about hospital stuff now.
Malia:But one last thing I wanted to say about Rose and the ice is, so, we don't actually get it confirmed in this chapter, I mean, it's basically confirmed, but the way It's confirmed that she helps break the ice is Blake realizes how like haggard she looks. Because he realizes that she exerted that effort that like, took energy out of her when she broke the mirror.
Jenny:Yeah
Malia:and I'm pretty sure that Rose has to use part of her like capital S self, because I don't think she has any other power source. And I think that's why she feels so horribly drained because she's using her Self to break the things.
Jenny:Sure.
Malia:It also kind of reminds me of the vision with the rabbit and the girl and she throws the thing and it shatters. Which makes me think like, were they were those all through mirrors? Was Rose, seeing the thing? I mean, she saw the visions as well. Was it like Blake and Rose? Was it Johannes? Was it like, how were these things happening? were they all facing mirrors?
Jenny:You keep thinking it's Johannes.
Malia:Because he was he was sitting there looking at everything, and he was like, Don't ignore it. What you just saw. So did he see Rose? Did Johannes see Rose? Was it just? I just I don't know, man.
Jenny:All right. Well, with that, I'd like to move on to your bold and specific prediction for the day.
Malia:Awesome. So I yeah, I... My goal is to have a bold and specific pred-- Or at least you know, I want a specific prediction every podcast because I think that I have a deep desire to be right. And I want to try to fight that and try to like just say stuff and throw stuff out there by like challenging myself to do this. So this one isn't that exciting. But I think that the bird mask Others were sent by the family at the table like not the coven, not all the blonde women but in the vision the family just the normal family at the table.
Malia:I have no basis for this. The cov-- so the coven seem more... They don't seem as like wildy animal pelt, magicy people. The Witch Hunters, I think like to do things themselves. I guess they could be the Irish people. I don't know anything about the rabbit girl. It could be her. She likes frozen ponds. I don't think it's the Aboriginal woman. I also don't know if that term's okay to say and I don't know. But I'm gonna keep saying it because that was the word. And I don't think it's Johannes because that's too obvious.
Jenny:Why is it--? Okay. All right. You are so... Anyway. Yeah, well, we're just gonna keep going.
Jenny:Alright, so we heard it here. Bird antler Others were sent by the family at the table. All right, we will see if you're right or not.
Jenny:So when we were talking a little earlier, I think before we were recording, you did mention how Blake's trek, or, basically chase reminded you of Louise and Pale and like her chasing the Carmine Beast.
Malia:They're both at the beginning of the book. They're setting the scene. And they're both like traveling in the snow through a long distance. They both have to get out of their cars at some point and continue on foot. But kind of some of the distinct differences are like like so Louise is very much in physical danger. But like, as she would admit, it's her own fault. It's It's her medical condition and like the fact that she's out in the snow and the fact that like she doesn't have a coat are the things that like, pose a danger to Louise like, the Carmine Beast does not pose a danger and the goblins don't pose a danger. But it's it's Louise, an Aware person like trudging through the snow determinately because of the practice at night. Yeah. Whereas Blake is also making a harrowing journey through the snow, has to get out of his car. But Blake is very much in danger from the Others who are attacking him slash trying to get him to die in a way that looks like they didn't kill him. And so just a lot of like the cold feeling and the darkness feeling and the creepy what's going on feeling the danger feeling those were all really present in both of these. And I think it's interesting that they both it's Yeah, again to people who are capital-A Aware, trekking through the snow, because of the practice at the beginning of the story, I guess they sort of end a little bit differently Blake returns to the realm of the innocence and Louise-- Louise does but first she encounters the world the of the practice like first she straight up encounters bunch people who are like, oh, lol, let's make this like deal. So you can like have your memories erased lol bye. But yeah, I just thought it was kind of interesting.
Jenny:Okay, awesome. I appreciate all your comparison.
Malia:So the karmic law practice continues to haunt me. I decided, well, I wanted to make a bold guess about what these Others are. So I was like, Where can I maybe find that let's make-- fill out notes on the Famulus text, the familiar text in Pale. It didn't help but they mentioned karmic law like three times. At one point they're like, oh, if you make a familiar like a karmic law Other familiar other Others that are like really chaotic in nature might not vibe with you and might not want to like interact with you and I'm just what are these things like? Ahhhhhhhh like law isn't that orderly but I guess like fine. Maybe karmic law is. I don't get it, but it's haunting me. And it's it's everywhere. It's like he just throws it in there like little like pepper little and it's enough he never gets a full example or whatever, which makes me think like, Oh, this is the fun easter egg for all the stupid people who've read not stupid for all those really great people who've read Pact and know what a karmic law practice practitioner Other is.
Malia:So tune in next week to see if Wildbow mentioned the karmic law practice in the Implements texts, because if he did, and Grandma Rose is not a karmic law practitioner. I will write a fanfic where she is. Except I won't, because I'm a law student, but I won't need to because she obviously is... slash was.
Jenny:Alright, now that we're done, before get into the discussion question part, we just want to say thank you so much for everyone being so welcoming. Basically, when we put the Reddit thread up and we joined Discord we honestly... not like we expected people to be mean or anything, we didn't expect quite such a warm welcome. So thank you guys. We're really excited to be doing this. And glad that so far, you seem to like what you're hearing.
Malia:Yeah, and we especially want to shout out and thank everyone at Doof! Media. As most of you probably know, they do a lot of like Wildbow podcast content. And we asked them for advice early on. They were super welcoming, and super helpful. And they even gave us a spot on their Discord. So that people who like their podcasts can like learn about our podcast. If you're interested in joining their Discord, you can go to doofmedia.com/discord. But yeah, it's a free open Discord. And you should really check them out, if you haven't. They're great.
Jenny:So going back to our discussion question for the previous week, just as a reminder, it was how would you compare your first impression of Blake's family with your first impression of the Pale protagonists' families.
Jenny:So we got a few good, really good responses. A lot of them are pretty wordy, so we're not going to go through all of them in entirety, but they're all really good. So if you're interested in reading up on seeing exactly what each of these users said, on Reddit, and go... I'm trying to rememberr what it was called, basically new Pact podcast, our discussion thread for last week.
Jenny:Anyway our first one, we'll go over and again, I apologize if and when I mispronounce these usernames. It's gonna happen. I'm sorry. meisi_1 basically says Pact throws us into the deep end. So compare Pale to each of the three protagonists so the Kelly family feels like they struggle to keep up with who's who just like the Thorburn family. With Avery's family, I feel like it's somewhat intentional since they're basically designed to overwhelm her and cause her to slip through the cracks. On the other hand, the messiness of the Thorburn family felt more designed to evoke chaos rather than overwhelm. Then they point out,they're a shit family, the Thorburns, so they're worth comparing to Verona's. It takes us a while to fully appreciate how shit Brett is and to find out how shit her mum is. Whereas in this first chapter, the Thorburn family are impressively up front and public about being fuckwits. I suppose there's something to be said for the Ellingsons, that's Lucy's family being as good as the Thorburns are bad right from the get go. Pretty good comparison there.
Malia:Tisarwat says that the biggest difference between the families in Pact and in Pale is how they reflect the protagonists. So the Kennetteers' families emphasize the different parts of being a child. So Verona emphasizes being powerless, Lucy emphasizes being cared for and Avery emphasizes, like being overlooked. Whereas on the other hand, Blake is an adult. And maybe he even kind of became independent before like he was legally recognized as such. But he's coming in as an outsider into like this situation. And so he has power because he's not like constrained or beholden to anyone. But it's also a weakness because he doesn't have these like relationships that would support him so kind of like the Kennetteers as children and Blake as kind of an adult is is an interesting comparison that Tisarwat really drew out.
Jenny:Let's see, next we have ace of swords, they basically choose to compare the Thorburns with Verona's family, which makes a lot of sense. They basically say Brett didn't come across as badly in his first impression, or at least as badly as we find out he is later on. Versus the Thorburns definitely show you exactly how crap they are. So it sort of goes on to say I've met several people whom Brett reminded me of, hard working people raised by hard working parents at a time and in a place where there was hard work all around, and everyone had to contribute, and now that they're older, it just seems obvious to them that all the work should be done all the time. However we find out Brett's not actually one of those people. He doesn't think hard work is normal. He just thinks it's a sacrifice that should be praised and it's only for Verona to be doing all that.
Malia:All right. And then knowledge_nomad talks about how the first chapter of Pact makes it clear that family relationships are going to be a really big deal for Blake, and kind of makes you wonder why they're such assholes. Whereas this is one of my favorite comparisons I've thought of, or that I've heard, I hadn't thought of it, that Brett feels more like the Dursleys before Harry gets his letter in Harry Potter, with all the chores and like that sort of abuse, it was kind of really interesting comparison, I thought, but talks about how the seeds of something darker this darker relationship are planted. And how Miss kind of works as a like mother figure for Verona in particular, and in like an escape route. It's really interesting.
Jenny:Last but not least, we have thebvampyre. So they basically talked about in Pact, see how mysterious the Thorburns were in the first chapter. So you know, we didn't really know anything about the Otherverse when Pact first came out, so didn't really know what the heck was happening. So yeah in Pale, the protagonists have already been introduced to the existence of magic by Miss, but Blake is capital I innocent. And the odd thing surrounding Grandma Rose is in a way tied to his family. But he doesn't really get that anything supernatural is going on in the beginning, basically the Thorburn family and what Pale readers recognize as Otherverse shenanigans are connected.
Jenny:Anyway, so yeah, this was a pretty interesting discussion question. I think we got some really good responses from that. So thank you guys so much for giving us your input. And we'll keep trying to give you more interesting food for thought, at least, when we think of a good question.
Malia:Yeah, and like we have said previously, we don't really know what we're doing. So if y'all have feedback for this segment, and how we could improve it, Do you want more? Do you want less, just let us know, nicely?
Jenny:I mean, if you like hearing us bumble awkwardly over, you know, usernames and stuff, then I mean, that's kind of funny, too. So that's fair enough. We'll keep it going.
Malia:Like we said, we really appreciate all of your enthusiasm and support for a podcast and we want to shout out the people who take the time to engage with it in this way. So thanks, y'all.
Jenny:Thank you so much, guys.
Jenny:Anyway, let's move on to our discussion question for the week. Basically, we want you to rate Blake's survival skills, you can use a, well, 1 to 10 or we're not being real strict on you here.
Malia:Yeah, whatever metric you think is useful.
Jenny:Whenever you feel like using you can use like, you know, like three squirrels out of, I dunno, 12 squirrels
Malia:You could say how many days he would have survived if he was in Gary Paulson's The Hatchet.
Jenny:Hmm, that's very random but I like it.
Malia:Blake and Brian swap places. I think his name was Brian?
Jenny:I'm pretty sure his name is Brian. Wow, that was back in the day. That's a Hatchet reference, everyone.
Jenny:Also, as part of the discussion question, if Rose was physically there in his place, how do you think she would have fared? Do you think she would have done just as good? Better? Died immediately?
Malia:Rude.
Jenny:What do you think? Let us know.
Malia:Also, you can maybe talk about Okay, you don't have to do this at all. But I was thinking what if Rose wasn't there to help Blake slash what if just Rose was there, and Blake wasn't there to help Rose, but you don't have to do that.
Jenny:You can think of as many combinations about that as you want. Just like you know, anything that feels like it just inspires you to talk about that. Just go for it. You know, we'd love to hear it.
Jenny:Thanks for listening guys. If you enjoyed this episode, and you'd like to help support the podcast, please subscribe, share it with your friends and leave a rating and review. Preferably a good rating but you know, you can do what you want, I guess.
Malia:You can follow us on Twitter @palecomparison, or send us an email at paleincomparisonpod@gmail.com. Also keep an eye out for our pale in comparison Reddit thread where you can answer that discussion question and any other thoughts you have about this episode.
Jenny:Did you know that plants, like humans, can run a fever if they're sick?
Malia:Bye!
Jenny:Bye!
